Interview with Ego Plum

The Cuphead Show! really is a joy to watch. Season one lasts a total of 12 episodes and is filled with lots of classic cartoon physics that the 1930’s animation style has always lent itself to. Visually interesting with lots of details everywhere, the 14-16 minute run time per episode is perfect for that Saturday morning feel. The stories are surprising, creative and truly original. My eyes always had something to look at and I couldn’t help but grin at times. The 2017 video game, Cuphead, was special because it managed to achieve an incredible homage to a lost era. The run and gun action game (developed and published by Studio MDHR) consisted of hand drawn cells, a throwback to the Golden Age of American Animation. It wasn’t just the animation of these classic cartoons that made them special, it was the music of the prolific composers whose songs still reach millions through Merrie Melodies, Silly Symphonies and Fleischer Studios produced works. Music can set mood, fill in “empty” space, and emphasize motion. Music helps TELL the story, with gestures and nuances so clear, that there are never any doubts as to the intentions when these artists paint pictures with notes and melodies. The tunes for toons during this time period shaped the characters and stories that have become ingrained in popular culture.

I got a chance to chat with Ego Plum (Jellystone!, The Patrick Star Show, etc) about scoring The Cuphead Show!

dagobot: Can you explain some of your musical background and formative musical experiences that brought you here?

Ego Plum: Sure. I guess I could call myself a cartoon composer. That’s primarily what I do and what I’ve been interested in my entire life. As a kid, watching Looney Tunes, listening to the music in the background of that. I aspired to be Carl Stalling, the musical director of Warner Brothers In the ‘30s. I would listen to that as my soundtrack doing homework. I was obsessed with that. Then at the same time I discovered outside artists, musicians and bands like Devo, The Residents, Oingo Boingo and that all felt along the same lines of what was going on behind these cartoons. Little did I know that all these artists would ultimately end up working in animation. It makes sense because these guys were wired a little differently. They were just doing things that were left of center. Just a little off kilter, and it made it interesting and appealing to directors, I’m sure.

What would you say is the one score back in the day that really hit you. That made you think this is what I want to do?.

Being a kid watching Pee-wee’s Playhouse was a really big deal because I heard music that was so bizarre and I just didn’t understand it. I didn’t know what I was hearing and who I was hearing. It wasn’t till later that I realized It was Danny Elfman. And someone like Paul Rubens had the good sense to bring these guys in because all that works so perfectly for children’s entertainment. There is a level of freedom that comes with scoring for kid shows that doesn’t happen with anything else. I get to be completely absurd. Surreal. Stop on a dime and go in different directions. Use such a variety of influences and styles. It made such a big impact on me. I realized I want to create this feeling for other kids.

What was your introduction to the Cuphead universe? Did you play the game before you got the gig or vice versa?

My friend Steve said Ego you got to try this game that came out called Cuphead. I’m like, what’s Cuphead? And he said you’re not going to believe it … It looks like an old cartoon. So I ended up playing it, and it blew my mind. It was just fantastic. You know, I’m not a real gamer type person. Although I bought a Switch during the pandemic and I ended up playing Animal Crossing which was just a wholesome very uplifting game in the middle of, you know, this horrible time in the world. Anyway, I digress, the music in that game is fantastic. Kris Maddigan … bless this guy, because I remember going on YouTube and hearing his music and then seeing the comments. Kids would be asking what kind of music is this? What do you call this music? And I’m like my god, Kris is making it so that like these young gamer kids that have no interest in 1930’s style jazz are fascinated by what it sounds like. I remember this happening back when Guitar Hero was out. Young kids learning about Lynyrd Skynyrd or AC/DC and parents walking by like what are you listening to in here? I mean that is an important service. Kris Maddigan is serving a greater good with what he did in this game.

What are some of your favorite 1930’s cartoons? What killer cuts do you recommend?

The most important influence for myself musically from that time is Raymond Scott. Raymond Scott makes what I call Cartoon Jazz, although he never wrote music for cartoons. Scott’s stuff is like way up here. It’s my guiding light for so much of what I do. I’m a bit twice removed from my influences. I’m more inspired by Danny Elfman’s take on Cab Calloway than Cab Calloway directly. Or what Danny did in Forbidden Zone in the Richard Elfman movie. The same with Raymond Scott’s music through the filter of Carl Stalling is more interesting in a lot of ways. Carl would take this music of the time and sort of stretch around like a rubber band. It’ll speed up and slow down. It was insane. He was essentially re-mixing music by utilizing an orchestra and treating music like rubber.

How do you find balance between what’s already there? I mean, It’s interesting how Cuphead became a show that was based on a cartoon video game based on not a real cartoon … but now, it’s a real cartoon?

First of all, it’s daunting. What Kris did was so fantastic. So there’s that pressure number one, right? Like how do you live up to what Kris has done? And then I realized well, you know, you don’t. I realize we’re running parallel to the game. This is like a parallel universe. And what I did was necessarily not wanting to copy but wanted to check out what he was listening to. Like the Duke Ellington stuff. I realized, I gravitated more towards Raymond Scott and certain specific things, like Leroy Shield. The composer who did music for Our Gang, the Little Rascals. That playful music played a big role.

I had realized I couldn’t just do big band stuff throughout the score because ultimately I had to be a bit more irreverent and I couldn’t completely respect the music of the 1930’s. This is all about stories, we are telling stories. So it’s not like I can write this piece of music, that’s just like three and a half minutes and then here comes the chorus and then repeats and ends. Like no, it has to stop and go and ebb and flow with whatever emotional arc or story arc that we’re playing with. I don’t have to stay true to the 1930’s.

I call what I do … It’s a bit like Punk Jazz because I’m completely unschooled. I don’t read music. I didn’t study music. I am a fan of Jazz as far as I listen to it and I put on a record and have a drink or whatever, but that’s the extent of it. It’s sort of like I just let the stuff kind of come into my head. I absorb it and then it filters it out and in its own unique way. It could be problematic. I’m sure there are purists that would be like, what the fuck are you doing with our precious music? I don’t know what to say about that.

Isn’t that the Punk part of it?

I think you’re right. I really like the idea of people being out of their element like when Trent Reznor got hired to do Pixar movies. It’s like, that’s perfect. I think I listened closely to a score, I think he used a major key. Like what is happening? He’s doing this happy kids score. That’s fantastic.

How many hours of music did you compose for the series?

We would start by composing songs that happen before the animation is done. So in general in animation where you have something like a dance sequence or a tap dancing number, we would do that way in advance, and then the animators will sort of create the animation or the animatics based on it. Like if horn guy was going (HORN SOUND) then they’ll sort of animate that in there as well.

We started four years ago, when I did the demo for the devil song. You know, then we had this little thing called a global pandemic, that really turned everything on its head. So initially, I had this vision of having these players in my studio here. You know, one microphone in the center of the room. Like trying to record like this old timey thing. And all that went to hell. We had to just figure out new ways to do everything. We ended up sort of recording remotely different people. Getting all the parts separately and mixing it. So it creates the illusion of a live jazz band playing together. It was difficult. You know, I don’t even know if I should be saying that because part of what we do is the illusion of that magic of Hollywood. This is reality. We were all in the situation together. All of us. In all our Industries.

There was a silver lining in that. I got to work with people that I would have never had. A musical saw player in Greece. We found these great players in New Jersey. There is a group called Moon Hooch, which is like two sax players. They’re really bizarre. They do almost like techno / dubstep with saxophones, which sounds completely absurd. They have like traffic cones sticking out of their instruments to create a deeper tone. They are the farthest thing from Jazz guys, but there again, for the same reasons we were talking about earlier, they were great on the score. They were perfect to use because they were out of their element. We are all sort of like outsiders trying to make this thing work really by the seat of our pants. It is risky, because, look, it’s a big corporation. It’s Netflix and there’s a lot at risk. But the beauty is they do take risks like this.

I think that’s when some of the best stuff is made, though.

You are right but it could also be a total disaster, and it would be absolutely beautiful. Right?

Exactly. An interesting disaster. But really, what you said about the recording process is making my mind melt. It sounds extremely crisp. When you are going through this process what kind of shape does it take?

One of the skills I’ve learned over my years as a composer is I have to figure out how to make things sound authentic and how to work especially on a budget. I’ve had the pleasure of recording with an orchestra, but also I worked on projects where they couldn’t afford even one musician. So how do you make that sound like it’s not like someone recording on the computer at home, right? This is going to be a little more technical but there are little things that you can do. Like if you do use a sample based Orchestra, let’s say, you know, you could have a live soloist over it and the combination of these things together almost creates an illusion of having a real Orchestra. Even if you only have a couple of live players over a bed of sampled or synthetic playing. But in the case of mixing, one of the things I like to do is leave imperfection in the recordings. I play piano parts and I could barely play and I will leave my mistakes in it. Like even the ending theme of the show. I’m barely getting through it and things are all off. That’s sort of the charm to it. You have to be confident enough in your stuff to know that there is value in the innocence, in the mistakes, the naivete. I think about some of my favorite punk rock records. Like if you hear The Buzzcocks first EP Spiral Scratch. These guys could barely play their instruments at that time. Or the Joy Division’s first album, like they don’t understand harmony or what they’re doing just yet. There’s something you can never come back to. I listen to the stuff that I recorded when I was 15. When I’m struggling. I try to recreate that now when I play and I can’t because I’m too good now. How do I lose that?

What was your favorite part of scoring The Cuphead Show?

I think my favorite stuff was the most challenging work. Anytime there’s a big chase scene and it requires really upbeat fast kind of stuff where I have to just rack my brain. It’s just so dense with notes and there’s so much information in just like two minutes. Honestly, anytime that I’m outside my own comfort zone It’s really where the most interesting stuff happens. Anytime I was pushed to write a song in a field that I wasn’t used to or compose a tap dancing sequence. Although, I took a tap dancing class out of high school which is the extent of my musical education. I couldn’t handle tap dancing. It was too hard. I couldn’t do tap dancing.

Do you have a favorite track on The Cuphead Show?

Probably the song with Wayne Brady who plays King Dice. That was a lot of fun. Trying to write music that feels timeless is sort of like the endgame. I aspire to write Pop Goes The Weasel or Three Blind Mice. Like a melody like that in its simplicity and timelessness is the pinnacle for me. I mean it may sound absurd, but it really is. If I could even come halfway to that then, you know, I’ve achieved something. The goal was really to try to write songs and melodies that felt like they’ve always existed. Which is just the goal of the entire show like Cuphead and in a lot of ways feels like a cartoon that should have always been there but it wasn’t. It really does feel like it should always exist somewhere in some form. When you feel that, I think it succeeds.

 

The Cuphead Show! dropped on Netflix – February 18th 2022